Kufr being Excused due to Ignorance (for Fudayl and Aboo Sulaymaan)

***sasjamal*** · 11-08-2004, 01:16 AM

As-salaamu Alaikum

Since like for the longest time I have wanted to seen both of your views on this sort of comparitively, as when I am around you, I tend to believe Shaikh Abu Muhammad is correct and when I am with Abu Sulymaan, Abu Dujanah, I tend to feel more inclined towards the views of Shaikh Abu Baseer, etc.

So, I would really like to see this with all of its proofs if possible (if you guys do not mind).

This issue fascinates me, and usually I take one side of it and comapre it to the other, and since both of you tend to defend the views that you uphold, I would like to see it discussed with it's proofs and what not.

Can you please do so?

Jazaakum Allaahu Khairan

On CG there was this huge thread, but it was not done in the best of ways (or maybe it was). Not in terms of manners, but it came about in a different way, etc. and was sort of abrasive.

Abul-Fadl · 11-08-2004, 03:25 AM

wa 'Alaykum as-Salaam,

Sorry, I'm too busy. Nor do I like debating either -- online -- because it takes up way too much time.

By the way, Aboo Dujaanah says that he doesn't hold a definite stance on this issue now, although previously he held the stance held by Aboo Baseer and AQAA (Abul-Fadl al-Misree). He said the series in the Sawt al-Jihaad magazine on the nullifiers of Islaam has swayed him to some degree away from his previous stance. He says he now has a 50/50 stance on this issue, leaning towards one side more than the other (I can't remember which).

***sasjamal*** · 11-08-2004, 03:29 AM

No problem, I generally tend to stick with Abu Muhammad's views on it, but the other side puts up a really strong argument. It's not about debate necessarily however, I just want to see both explanations to the same proof.

For example both sides bring the narration of abu bakr killing the appostates but give different explanations to it, etc.

Anyway, its been something I have wanted to know about in detail for some time. If any of you guys find the time to explain it in more detail, I would appreaciate it.

Aboo Sulaymaan · 11-08-2004, 05:27 PM

May_We_Achieve · 11-08-2004, 10:29 PM

what is the stance of other scholars from our salaf?

also, some one narrated to me that shaykh Abdul Wahhab said, 'al juhl 7ujjatun 3alayk wa laysa lak'. though in all this time i havent come across this in any of his works (and ive barely been through them properly) any body heard of this statement?

Abul-Fadl · 11-08-2004, 10:34 PM

I've heard this statement before in one of the writings of the Najdee scholars, but I can't remember who and where.

abu hudhayfa · 11-09-2004, 10:59 AM

mashaAllah this topic is very interesting and important in our time, and for the non-arabic speaking students (like myself) it would be very beneficial if a book og article disc. the topic inshaAllah...

hoping for the best inshAllah in the future...

ma salaam

11-08-2004, 01:16 AM	#1
*sasjamal* At my most Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,201 My Mood: Gender:	Kufr being Excused due to Ignorance (for Fudayl and Aboo Sulaymaan) As-salaamu Alaikum Since like for the longest time I have wanted to seen both of your views on this sort of comparitively, as when I am around you, I tend to believe Shaikh Abu Muhammad is correct and when I am with Abu Sulymaan, Abu Dujanah, I tend to feel more inclined towards the views of Shaikh Abu Baseer, etc. So, I would really like to see this with all of its proofs if possible (if you guys do not mind). This issue fascinates me, and usually I take one side of it and comapre it to the other, and since both of you tend to defend the views that you uphold, I would like to see it discussed with it's proofs and what not. Can you please do so? Jazaakum Allaahu Khairan On CG there was this huge thread, but it was not done in the best of ways (or maybe it was). Not in terms of manners, but it came about in a different way, etc. and was sort of abrasive. __________________ Sas, Technical Director http://sasjamal.muslimpad.com/ Unite and Conquer www.islamicnetwork.com

11-08-2004, 03:25 AM	#2
Abul-Fadl Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 191 Gender:	wa 'Alaykum as-Salaam, Sorry, I'm too busy. Nor do I like debating either -- online -- because it takes up way too much time. By the way, Aboo Dujaanah says that he doesn't hold a definite stance on this issue now, although previously he held the stance held by Aboo Baseer and AQAA (Abul-Fadl al-Misree). He said the series in the Sawt al-Jihaad magazine on the nullifiers of Islaam has swayed him to some degree away from his previous stance. He says he now has a 50/50 stance on this issue, leaning towards one side more than the other (I can't remember which). __________________ Abul-Fadl

11-08-2004, 03:29 AM	#3
*sasjamal* At my most Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,201 My Mood: Gender:	No problem, I generally tend to stick with Abu Muhammad's views on it, but the other side puts up a really strong argument. It's not about debate necessarily however, I just want to see both explanations to the same proof. For example both sides bring the narration of abu bakr killing the appostates but give different explanations to it, etc. Anyway, its been something I have wanted to know about in detail for some time. If any of you guys find the time to explain it in more detail, I would appreaciate it. __________________ Sas, Technical Director http://sasjamal.muslimpad.com/ Unite and Conquer www.islamicnetwork.com

11-08-2004, 05:27 PM	#4
Aboo Sulaymaan Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 74 Gender:	. Last edited by Aboo Sulaymaan : 11-14-2004 at 01:19 AM.

11-08-2004, 10:34 PM	#6
Abul-Fadl Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 191 Gender:	I've heard this statement before in one of the writings of the Najdee scholars, but I can't remember who and where. __________________ Abul-Fadl

11-08-2004, 10:29 PM	#5
May_We_Achieve Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 242 Gender:	what is the stance of other scholars from our salaf? also, some one narrated to me that shaykh Abdul Wahhab said, 'al juhl 7ujjatun 3alayk wa laysa lak'. though in all this time i havent come across this in any of his works (and ive barely been through them properly) any body heard of this statement?

11-09-2004, 10:59 AM	#7
abu hudhayfa Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 16 Gender:	mashaAllah this topic is very interesting and important in our time, and for the non-arabic speaking students (like myself) it would be very beneficial if a book og article disc. the topic inshaAllah... hoping for the best inshAllah in the future... ma salaam __________________ O Allah, Make us Muwahiddin, living and breathing for Your Tawhid... LA ILAHA ILLA ALLAH ابو حذيفة الدنماركي الموحد

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