a, aa, â

[Shajaa3ah]

Assalaamu alaikum,

I wanted to make a post about proper transliteration of common phrases, because I sometimes notice that there are certain phrases that are commonly transliterated in such a way as to change the meaning of the phrase.

I know some people disagree with me on the importance of correct transliteration and claim that it is not being written in the same language, so what does it matter how you transliterate it. Those who know me, know why it is so, and those who do not, well...don't shoot the messenger.

There are two common ones I can think of right now, but I will add to it as I notice more in shaa' Allaah.

Also, I am not talking about whether you choose to write Islam or Islaam or Islâm. I am mainly talking about transliteration errors, as I said, that can change the meaning of the word.

If I correct any transliteration on anyone's posts, please do not take offence, please just accomodate my being a stickler in this regard.

Jazakumullaahu khairan.

[Shajaa3ah]

'Allah knows best' - اللهُ أَعْلَم

Notes:

1. The letter 'ayn is AFTER the letter alif, so this should be reflected in how you write it.
2. There is a fat-hah not a kasrah on top of the letter lam, so there should be an a not a i after the 'l' in English.

Examples:

1. If you choose to represent the letter ayn with a ' then it should read: a'lam.
2. If you choose to represent it with a 3, then it should read: a3lam.

Common Mistakes:

1. If you indicate the ayn before the alif - alam or 'alam- it could be taken to mean 'a mark/sign' or it could mean 'world'.
2. If you write an 'i' instead of an 'a' after the L and the 'ayn in the wrong place - 'alim - it means 'a scholar.'

So how should I write it?

A'lam
A3lam
Alam (I don't like this, but I am being lenient)

[AbuIlyaas]

'Allah knows best' - اللهُ أَعْلَم

Notes:

1. The letter 'ayn is AFTER the letter alif, so this should be reflected in how you write it.
2. There is a fat-hah not a kasrah on top of the letter lam, so there should be an a not a i after the 'l' in English.

Examples:

1. If you choose to represent the letter ayn with a ' then it should read: a'lam.
2. If you choose to represent it with a 3, then it should read: a3lam.

Common Mistakes:

1. If you indicate the ayn before the alif - alam or 'alam- it could be taken to mean 'a mark/sign' or it could mean 'world'.
2. If you write an 'i' instead of an 'a' after the L and the 'ayn in the wrong place - 'alim - it means 'a scholar.'

So how should I write it?

A'lam
A3lam
Alam (I don't like this, but I am being lenient)

Maa Shaa' Allaah! (Mâ shâ' Allâh) transliteration, one of my favourite subjects.

I used to use A'alim for أَعْلَم but I seemed to be alone on an island with that one. Oh wait! I've just noticed I'm guilty of the kasrah on the lam bit, jazaaki Allaahu khairan for pointing it out, A'lam. I'm a repeat offender, my son was victim to a kasrah known only to me. I had to return to the registrar's office to change the spelling on the birth certificate as soon as I realised. I asked one of the ladies at the desk is it possible to change the spelling on the certifcate, she asked me, "there is a way around it, are you going to have the child baptized." "No, :crazy: " But there was another way, wa-l-hamdu lillaah.

Did you ever read this article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,730805,00.html) (apologies if you have as I've posted a link to it in the past)

There is a difference between using a ` and a ' which I have found a little difficult to get used to in transliteration but I'm working on it. Personally, I'm not a fan of the usage of 3 for 'ayn - no offence intended sister. My first impression when I saw it was that it was typo, I'm even less of a fan of the usage of 7.

Other things that I feel are important are to emphasis the 'ayn with an a not just a ' in isolataion as a practice. For example leaving samee' like that doesn't distinguish the 'ayn from the hamzah that the ' alludes to in maa shaa'

I need to work on my consistancy in whether I use an L for the lam when I transliterate it the case of shamsiyyah. I'd prefer to write it al-noor rather than an-noor because if someone is aware of the rule they'd pronounce it correctly anyway.

What font do people prefer for transliteration, I'm looking for one that has a dot under an S and a H? I tend to use verdana at the moment because my work word processor doesn't seem to have the range of symbols in its Times New Roman that my home Times New Roman does and I have difficultly transferring my writings.

But having said all that my Arabic is paltry anyway (mainly technical terms) so I should just stick to my p's and q's and leave my baa's and qaaf's.

[Shajaa3ah]

Maa Shaa' Allaah! (Mâ shâ' Allâh) transliteration, one of my favourite subjects.

Hayyaakumullaah.


Did you ever read this article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,730805,00.html) (apologies if you have as I've posted a link to it in the past)

Jazakumullaahu khairan, I read it when you put the link up the first time, and enjoyed the truth of it..painful as it was. It gets frustrating trying to look something up on Google and having to type in 5 different possible transliterations of it to get the full range of information available.


There is a difference between using a ` and a ' which I have found a little difficult to get used to in transliteration but I'm working on it. Personally, I'm not a fan of the usage of 3 for 'ayn - no offence intended sister. My first impression when I saw it was that it was typo, I'm even less of a fan of the usage of 7.

No offence taken. I don't like 7 either, but I tolerate and use the 3 on the net to distinguish between the ayn and the hamzah like you said...sometimes. I am not really consistent on the net in this regard. Off the net, then when I am working I use a ‘ for a 'ayn and a ’ for a hamzah.

I also prefer lines above rather than hats (i.e. ā instead of â).


I need to work on my consistancy in whether I use an L for the lam when I transliterate it the case of shamsiyyah. I'd prefer to write it al-noor rather than an-noor because if someone is aware of the rule they'd pronounce it correctly anyway.

At the moment, I prefer the ALA-LC 'Romanization' method (http://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/romanization/arabic.pdf) and that is what I use in my work. I agree with you about the Lam of the shamsiyyah, and I write al-noor instead of an-noor. It is an interesting standardised method, very close to the academic method we were taught in University.

What I find particularly useful is how they use the prime´ to distinguish between two consonants that might normally be mistaken for a digraph. So, for example, someone may read the word fathah as fa-thah. The use of the prime avoids this, and it becomes fat´hah.


What font do people prefer for transliteration, I'm looking for one that has a dot under an S and a H? I tend to use verdana at the moment because my work word processor doesn't seem to have the range of symbols in its Times New Roman that my home Times New Roman does and I have difficultly transferring my writings.


There is a font called Times Diacritics, that has letters with dots underneath. I once wrote to the Islamic Texts Society and asked them where they got their font (because they publish books with dots underneath), and they very kindly sent me the font over e-mail. Through the course of computer changes and reformats since then, I have lost the font, and the CD I had saved it on is corrupted. But if you write to them in shaa' Allaah I am sure they will send you it also. The man to FAO your email to is called Juan Acevedo.

Normally I use Garamond, because I think it looks much nicer than Times New Roman and it is still conservative enough to work with.

[AbuIlyaas]

There is a font called Times Diacritics, that has letters with dots underneath. I once wrote to the Islamic Texts Society and asked them where they got their font (because they publish books with dots underneath), and they very kindly sent me the font over e-mail. Through the course of computer changes and reformats since then, I have lost the font, and the CD I had saved it on is corrupted. But if you write to them in shaa' Allaah I am sure they will send you it also. The man to FAO your email to is called Juan Acevedo.

Maa shaa' Allaah, that's a good idea, there are often more helpful people in the world than we realise. I've had a lot of good responses when I've written to various institutes. Jazaaki Allaahu khairan.

[AbuIlyaas]

At the moment, I prefer the ALA-LC 'Romanization' method (http://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/romanization/arabic.pdf) and that is what I use in my work. I agree with you about the Lam of the shamsiyyah, and I write al-noor instead of an-noor. It is an interesting standardised method, very close to the academic method we were taught in University.

I've just been able to check this link out at home, as it fell victim to my company's web-sense and was blocked at work. I have printed this one off before but it contains one of my pet hates, when someone transliterates the letter thal ‘ ذ ’ with the letters ‘dh’.

I never understood the logic in this; I mean I can comprehend the problem, the ‘th’ sound in, ‘ ذ ’ , as in ‘they’, needs to be differentiated from the ‘th’ sound, ‘ث ', as in 'three', when transliterating Arabic into Latin script. But we already have both of these sounds in English and we managed to cope with the differences. Couldn’t they have just stuck a dot or a line under 'th', instead of putting a ‘d’ and an ‘h’ side by side and expecting a non-Arab to not pronounce it like a ‘D’?

I was a little shocked the first time I saw ¾x¯zc«[ written in Arabic and realised that there was no 'd' in it!

Has anyone ever actually seen the British Standards Institute's guidelines? I searched for it on amazon once and in addition to being hideously expensive it is equally as rare.

I'm looking for a system that doesn't utilise the dh for ذ and which I can adopt for my coursework. I seem to use a different transliteration method for every assignment I hand in.

I started off with the extended vowel approach aa as seen in many "salafee" writings; then moved onto the â and ā style dependant on which PC I'm on at the time; then more recently, I have been dropping all sorts of funny symbols in, such as ş ĥ and ţ and some other ones which it won't let me replicate here.

I still opt for the aa style on internet forums because ā's, ī's, etc. are just way too much effort to make when you're not getting graded for it.

In shaa' Allaah, if the Islamic Texts Society get back to me I'll be able to relax with their font, although I'm still steering clear of the dh, which they also use.

Subhaana Allaah, I can't believe how long it took to get ¾x¯zc«[ to come up in this post without it becoming changed into question marks or gibberish when I cut and pasted it in. I tried variations of different fonts in my word processors and then eventually had to switch from Mozilla to Internet explorer before it would let me cut'n'paste.

Does anyone know why this is? I adjusted the encoding as was suggested in another thread but subhaana Allaah that took a lot of effort to get in here.

Lastly, which word processor would anyone suggest to use for using both Arabic and English in my coursework? I currently use Corel Word Perfect because I was given it free and the Arabic font looks better than my Word 97's does (in my opinion).

[Shajaa3ah]

I've just been able to check this link out at home, as it fell victim to my company's web-sense and was blocked at work. I have printed this one off before but it contains one of my pet hates, when someone transliterates the letter thal ‘ ذ ’ with the letters ‘dh’.

I never understood the logic in this; I mean I can comprehend the problem, the ‘th’ sound in, ‘ ذ ’ , as in ‘they’, needs to be differentiated from the ‘th’ sound, ‘ث', as in 'three', when transliterating Arabic into Latin script. But we already have both of these sounds in English and we managed to cope with the differences. Couldn’t they have just stuck a dot or a line under 'th', instead of putting a ‘d’ and an ‘h’ side by side and expecting a non-Arab to not pronounce it like a ‘D’?


When I was being taught transliteration at Uni, what I found even more intolerable was to transliterate the letter ظ as a z with a dot underneath.

There are problems with putting a dot under the 'th' to represent a ذ , as a script would have to be developed with a special character that had the dot in the middle of them both - a dot under the t would make it a ط and a dot under the h would make it a ح. I guess with most books or publications - if not academic - there is usually a guide somewhere that tells you how to pronounce each letter. I have gotten used to the dh, and prefer it to any other representation I have come across (like using capitals for eg - THaalika for ذلك ).


I was a little shocked the first time I saw ¾x¯zc«[ written in Arabic and realised that there was no 'd' in it!
...

Subhaana Allaah, I can't believe how long it took to get ¾x¯zc«[ to come up in this post without it becoming changed into question marks or gibberish when I cut and pasted it in. I tried variations of different fonts in my word processors and then eventually had to switch from Mozilla to Internet explorer before it would let me cut'n'paste.


This is how it appears for me, even after fiddling with the encoding.


In shaa' Allaah, if the Islamic Texts Society get back to me I'll be able to relax with their font, although I'm still steering clear of the dh, which they also use.

If you do get the font, could you please also email it to

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/o1a/shajbanner.jpg

Jazakumullaahu khairan.


Lastly, which word processor would anyone suggest to use for using both Arabic and English in my coursework? I currently use Corel Word Perfect because I was given it free and the Arabic font looks better than my Word 97's does (in my opinion).


I use Word 2002 or 2003, it works fine for me.

[AbuIlyaas]

When I was being taught transliteration at Uni, what I found even more intolerable was to transliterate the letter ظ as a z with a dot underneath.

There are problems with putting a dot under the 'th' to represent a ذ , as a script would have to be developed with a special character that had the dot in the middle of them both - a dot under the t would make it a ط and a dot under the h would make it a ح. I guess with most books or publications - if not academic - there is usually a guide somewhere that tells you how to pronounce each letter. I have gotten used to the dh, and prefer it to any other representation I have come across (like using capitals for eg - THaalika for ذلك ).

I hadn't thought of the dot under two characters problem - which is a point. Another problem I noticed with dots under Latin script comes in underlining headings, as they obviously becomes obscured. I think I prefer the to use underlining at times to distinguish characters, kh dh zh th (note: I've given up trying to get Arabic characters into this post as something just ain't working for me).

However, I think any system of transliteration is going to have a negative impact in the transferral of a language into a different script. Which would be one of the reasons why it was used successfully as a weapon by colonialists to distance the people from Arabic, e.g. Swahili (Sawaahilee), which lost its use of Arabic script.



This is how it appears for me, even after fiddling with the encoding.

Subhaana Allaah, you've no idea how frustrating that is, when I switched my computer off last night it didn't look like that. I was trying to write al-Tirmidhi, but in Arabic script. I had some serious gremlins in that post last night, at one point it started changing two thirds of my English into Arabic characters.


If you do get the font, could you please also email it to.

Yes, in shaa' Allaah.

Jazaakum Allaahu khairan.

[Catalyst]

So how should I write it?

[/u]A'lam
A3lam
Alam (I don't like this, but I am being lenient)[/size][/size][/size]

A3lam the best, i think wAllaahu a3lam

[Traveller]

Nerds :D

I agree with with the whole 'ayn/3ayn issue tho..it does my head in sometimes..when I hear someone say "al hamdulillaahi rabbil aaalameen", as in alif laam meem yaa noon and not 'AYN laam meem yaa..it changes the whole meaning of the word and it especially ticks me off when ppl are just too lazy to pronounce the 'ayn properly.

What does aaalameen mean anyway? (as in alif laam meem..)

[AbuIlyaas]

Someone educate me, what would be an Arabic equivalent of the word nerd?

Yeah, another alif laam meem thing is where someone extends the kasrah in alif into a long yaa, when they butcher an attempt at tajweed: aleef laam meem, doesn't it change the meaning to pet?