Ta Tu

[Prof]

When do you use ta and when do you use tu? Is it always the same for a particular word or does it change depending on context?

وَمَا هُوَ بِقَوْلِ شَاعِرٍ قَلِيلاً مَا تُؤْمِنُونَ

وَلَا بِقَوْلِ كَاهِنٍ قَلِيلاً مَا تَذَكَّرُونَ

[Editor]

The wazn of yuf3ilu comes from af3ala. It is originally a maadi with 3 huroof but is preceeded by an added hamzah. In the example you gave, the madi for yu'minu is آمن aamana. Another example would be أكرم akrama, yukrimu. Which means to make someone noble or to honor someone. Whereas the original (without the hamzah) كرم karuma, yakrumu means to become noble.

So yea, it usually indicates that of the maadi and has a different meaning.

The other way a mudaari3 starts with a dammah is when it's majhool (a passive verb) with the wazn of yuf3alu. Example, tukramu. Which means (she) is (being) honored.


Otherwise a fi3l maadi with only its 3 original letters, its mudaari3 ma'loom (active present tense verb) always starts with a fathah - ya (or ta as in your Q).
Eg. كتب، يكتب kataba, yaktubu, أكل، يأكل akala, ya'kulu.

[Prof]

Oh, perhaps you do not understand my arabic background.

Words I understand about arabic grammar: ism, fi'l, harf, maadi, mudari', amr.

What I understood from what you said: "kinda depends on the word and kinda depends on the context."

Jazakum Allah khayr. I will try to learn some more basics before getting into this stuff.

[Editor]

I'm sorry. I knew I was doing that more for myself. Anyway, wa iyyaka khairal jazaa, and may Allah help you in understanding this bit of it and more, ameen.

[Shajaa3ah]

To summarize what Editor said:

It is always with a fat-hah (ie ta, ya or a), except:


When the past tense is on the pattern af3ala
The verb is in the passive tense


In these instances, the first letter would have a dammah.

[Prof]

Ah, Jazakum Allah khair. That is easy enough to remember insha'Allah.

Is there any kind of meaning-pattern to a past tense verb taking on the "af3ala" pattern? And how do words like "amana" take on the af3ala pattern?

[Editor]

It usually means like in my above example.

karuma - to become honorable; akrama - to make someone honorable, honor someone.
hadara - to be present. أحضر ahdara - to bring (something) into presence.
nazala - to descend. anzala أنزل - to send (something) down.

I don't know what it's called. And I don't know why I'm trying to explain.

[Editor]

That's interesting about aamana then. Shajaa3ah explain please :heart:

[Prof]

nazala - to descend. anzala أنزل - to send (something) down.

قَالُوا بَلَى قَدْ جَاءنَا نَذِيرٌ فَكَذَّبْنَا وَقُلْنَا مَا نَزَّلَ اللَّهُ مِن شَيْءٍ إِنْ أَنتُمْ إِلَّا فِي ضَلَالٍ كَبِيرٍ


إِنْ هِيَ إِلَّا أَسْمَاء سَمَّيْتُمُوهَا أَنتُمْ وَآبَاؤُكُم مَّا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ بِهَا مِن سُلْطَانٍ


Why is the first example I pasted nazala and not anazala? Is it because of the min?

[Editor]

Good question. I know there's a difference in the ism, when the shadda is placed... like in Ghaffaar instead of Ghafoor. Don't know how it applies in the fi3l.

[Shajaa3ah]

The difference between nazzala and anzala when used in the Qur'an:


nazzala is of the pattern fa33ala. This pattern usually indicates an action that occurs gradually and repetitively
anzala is of the pattern af3ala. This pattern usually indicates an action that happens at one time.


So nazzala in the Qur'an is used to refer to the revelation of the Qur'an itself, because it was sent down in parts over stages.

But anzala when used in the Qur'an is used to refer to the revelation of the other Books, or to the revelation of the Qur'an on Laylat al-Qadr (like when it is used in Surah al-Qadr).

That is the general rule. In terms of those examples you posted, Prof, you can see how that generally applies, but I would have to research how the rule applies to them specifically.

--

Another example of this, is from Surah Yusuf, when it says about the wife of al-'Azeez: wa ghallaqat al-abwaab ('And she closed the doors') where the pattern ghallaqa has been used to mean 'closed'.

The verb aghlaqa can also mean 'closed', but it is said that there was more than one door, and she went around closing them one after the other. Had there been only one door, either pattern could have been used. But ghallaqa was used here because it reflects the repetitiveness of the action, and it is therefore more precise.

And Allaah knows best.

[Shajaa3ah]

It usually means like in my above example.

karuma - to become honorable; akrama - to make someone honorable, honor someone.
hadara - to be present. أحضر ahdara - to bring (something) into presence.
nazala - to descend. anzala أنزل - to send (something) down.

I don't know what it's called. And I don't know why I'm trying to explain.

One of the meanings of the pattern af3ala is that it is causative compared to the basic form fa3ala.

The examples above nicely express this.

[Prof]

The difference between nazzala and anzala when used in the Qur'an:



nazzala is of the pattern fa33ala. This pattern usually indicates an action that occurs gradually and repetitively
anzala is of the pattern af3ala. This pattern usually indicates an action that happens at one time.


Jazakum Allah khayr. I get what you mean about the time aspect. But what does nazzala mean? nazala and anzala mean different things. Does nazzala mean what nazala means or what anzala means? Is there a specific rule?

[Shajaa3ah]

Wa iyyaakum.

But what does nazzala mean?...Does nazzala mean what nazala means or what anzala means?

Alot of words in Arabic have more than one meaning in English.

Nazzala here means what anzala means.

Usually, if there is a word on the pattern fa3ala, a word on the pattern fa33ala and a word on the pattern af3ala, the latter two will be close in meaning, because both of them can have causative meanings.

But sometimes, a word of the pattern fa33ala will also be close in meaning to a word of the pattern fa3ala, because another meaning conveyed by the pattern fa33ala is that of intensification, compared to fa3ala.

For example, the verb qatala would mean 'he killed', but qattala would mean 'he massacred' type thing.

Is there a specific rule?


There are general rules regarding verb patterns that can help you figure out the meaning of a derived pattern (eg fa33ala, af3ala, faa3ala) if you know the meaning of the basic verb (fa3ala), but not really anything hard-and-fast.

[Shajaa3ah]

Is there a specific rule?

Here are some good sites that tell you in general what the different forms/patterns mean:

The Arabic verb and Barbapapa (http://www.cedarseed.com/air/arabicverb.html)

Introduction to Forms and Form 1 verbs (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/frames/index.htm) (fa3ala)
Form 2 (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/form2/index.htm) (fa33ala)
Form 3 (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/form3/index.htm) (faa3ala)
Form 4 (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/form4/index.htm) (af3ala)
Form 5 (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/form5/index.htm) (tafa33ala)
Form 6 (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/form6/index.htm) (tafaa3ala)
Form 7 (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/form7/index.htm) (infa3ala)
Form 8 (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/form8/index.htm) (ifta3ala)
Form 9 (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/form9/index.htm) (if3alla)
Form 10 (http://www.geckil.com/~harvest/arabic/grammer/form10/index.htm) (istaf3ala)

If any of it is unclear to anyone, or needs more explaining, please ask.